8 Comments

  1. Naureen Khalid
    June 27, 2016 @ 3:35 pm

    I voted Remain and obviously I’m sad at the result. I don’t think the result should be overturned. I also don’t think that everyone who voted Leave has little or no understanding of the issues. I do, however, have a few concerns. Firstly, yes racists attacks happened in the past and regretfully will continue to happen. But I strongly feel the Leave leaders need to say these attacks aren’t what’s Leave is about. It pains me to read the Sun headline today. It pains me to read that the Polish embassy has had to put out a statement. It also pains me that Boris et al seem to have no plan. I also remember Farage saying that 52/48 Remain would be unfinished business. Inspite of all that Remain need to accept the result and move on and Leave need to come up with a plan and come out strongly that the Leave win doesn’t mean it’s open season for racists attacks.

    Reply

    • Teachwell
      June 27, 2016 @ 3:59 pm

      I agree and it does concern me too but I think that we need to separate out the incidents and the vote.

      As far as Farage is concerned, had the vote gone the other way I would be arguing the exact same thing, even if he wouldn’t.

      I honestly don’t think there is an easy answer to this. UKIP had 4 million votes in the last election and have increased their share of the vote in Wales. It is clear that people wanted to vote on EU for immigration as well as other issues. If this had not been allowed the sentiment would have continued and given further succour to Britain First and those on the far right at a time when there is already tension between communities. The far right want to kick off – they find every opportunity they can to do it. I really don’t think we can do anything other than show strength and it would do for all sections of those who wanted to leave to show a united front not just the obvious leaders.

      Reply

  2. teaching personally
    June 27, 2016 @ 3:44 pm

    Good comments all – but the desperation borne of deep conviction is not the same as a wish to subvert democracy. Whether the vote was framed in an appropriate way for a matter of this significance is another matter, too. I think another vote could only be justified in one circumstance: to give people the genuine chance for second thoughts now that more is known than was the case before last Thursday.

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    • Teachwell
      June 27, 2016 @ 4:04 pm

      I disagree completely. If there was a deep conviction then I think a more honest response would have been to seek compromise not try to overturn the vote on a technicality. As for giving people a second chance if they have changed their minds. Fine, and are you going to agree to another referendum after that in case the people who vote next time have second thoughts again? All this is leading to you wanting to change the vote so it goes your way. It isn’t subverting democracy – it is undermining it utterly. I don’t care about the EU enough to do that.

      Reply

  3. brian
    June 27, 2016 @ 5:01 pm

    I believe you have done just you seem to find distasteful in others.you seem to assert that an “academic education” is required. You believe those without an academic education might well have voted like “little Englanders”.

    You seem to have the same pitiful views of working class people but you at the same time believe that they have the right to have their limited view.

    I had no “academic education”.anything I learnt was hard won and I am proud of what I achieved. I was there when we joined and I am likely to be there when we leave.

    I quite possibly know more about the EU and its descendants than yourself and I will continue to study the EU whether we end up leaving or not. Yes I believe there is still some possibility we may not leave.

    I voted to leave as I believe that to do so is clearly in the best interests of those who do not have an academic education, are working class or are of senior years. I believe they were tight to vote they did but I question whether 30 odd % of the voting public should be able to make this decision.

    To mix this predicament with giving an academic education to the lower classes is for me wrong. I feel you are misguided in your crusade to save the poor.

    We cannot all be wealthy. The gap between rich and poor is growing, partly as a result of giving an ever larger share of the population an academic education. At least they now have the sense to know their vast debts make them poorer, that’s what a proper education does for you.

    Reply

    • Teachwell
      June 30, 2016 @ 10:33 pm

      “I believe you have done just you seem to find distasteful in others.you seem to assert that an “academic education” is required. You believe those without an academic education might well have voted like “little Englanders”.” “You seem to have the same pitiful views of working class people but you at the same time believe that they have the right to have their limited view.”
      This is all projection or possibly you not actually reading the post. It does not relate to what I wrote.

      “I quite possibly know more about the EU and its descendants than yourself”
      Also, I already made the point that there would be many people who would know more than me – so really not sure what point you are trying to make here. Please clarify the criteria on which you make the assumption that you know more than me about the EU. Also, the EU doesn’t have descendants. Do you mean Europeans?

      “and I will continue to study the EU whether we end up leaving or not. ”
      Good for you.

      “Yes I believe there is still some possibility we may not leave.” “I voted to leave”
      You voted to leave and now you regret it? Not sure what the deal is here but it seems to me that you are very confused about this whole referendum. Also it is bizarre that you are attacking a remain supporter for respecting the decision of leave voters like yourself. I think this is an example of where you comment on people’s posts just to spew out some invective rather than because you actually have a real point to make.

      “as I believe that to do so is clearly in the best interests of those who do not have an academic education, are working class or are of senior years. ”
      You don’t need to vote on behalf of other people – that’s why we all get one vote each.

      “I believe they were tight to vote they did but I question whether 30 odd % of the voting public should be able to make this decision.”
      When did you do that? Before, during or after the referendum? I think it is fair to question to rules and discuss how or even if the referendum should have been conducted. What I don’t think is acceptable is to suddenly decide after the fact that it isn’t unless there is a reason that would invalidate the vote – such as fraud, harassment, etc.

      “To mix this predicament with giving an academic education to the lower classes is for me wrong.”
      I don’t think I did so I think we will have to agree to disagree.

      “I feel you are misguided in your crusade to save the poor.”
      You are entitled to your opinion. All of this is a simple projection of what you think and feel. You do not know me and you certainly do not know me better than myself. I think all people in society should get the same excellent standard of education. People save themselves.

      “We cannot all be wealthy.”
      Agreed but has nothing to do with my post.

      “The gap between rich and poor is growing, partly as a result of giving an ever larger share of the population an academic education.”
      You assert without evidence and again nothing to do with my post. You assume I mean a university education when I was referring to education as a whole. We already pay from 5-18. It’s the content I was talking about.

      “At least they now have the sense to know their vast debts make them poorer, that’s what a proper education does for you.”
      Again you are simply rambling on about some pet issue of yours which has nothing to do with my post. You are conflating ‘proper’ education with a university education.

      Brian, I have given you the benefit of the doubt before and I have tried to do so again but if you produce anymore comments like this I am just going to report you outright so you can’t comment on my blog. You will have to find some other outlet.

      Reply

    • Alan
      July 18, 2016 @ 2:44 pm

      Brian

      Please read what Teachwell actually wrote.
      Teachwell has condemed those who are trying to get a democratic result overturned because the result did not suit them, and are using knee-jerk P.C. sloganeering (e.g. “racist”) to attack their opponents en-mass. Since these people are on “her side” (at least in terms of the E.U. referendum) this is a very brave thing to do.

      Well said Teachwell!
      “Nil Illigitimae Carborundum”.

      Reply

  4. Frederick Mosher
    August 9, 2016 @ 6:59 am

    All those interested in democratic theory, representative democracy, and the comparative analysis of political elites and democratic regimes.

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