1. teachwell
    December 6, 2015 @ 11:21 am

    Reblogged this on The Echo Chamber.


  2. footballfashionmusic
    December 6, 2015 @ 4:30 pm

    If you’re paying thousand of pounds for a service, you’ve every right to demand that you get the service you want. Students have been turned into customers so act like customers. I’d argue it’s huge fees and huge debt that drive this, not how they were taught in primary school.


    • teachwell
      December 6, 2015 @ 4:43 pm

      I would agree with the argument if it was the ‘quality’ of education that was in question. That is not the case here, it is the argument that they should be shielded from views they might find ‘upsetting’ and the idea that they need ‘safe spaces’ from ideas and people which contradict their own. Essentially they are paying more money for a poorer quality education which will leave them ignorant compared with those who have completed these courses in the past.

      Also education is not a ‘service’!! Of course if university students insist and advocate that they be left more stupid then it suggests that they do not have the maturity to be at university, and certainly should not be in a position to affect how they are run.


  3. footballfashionmusic
    December 11, 2015 @ 4:12 pm

    I suppose “service” was the wrong word but if you pay for something doesn’t it automatically become commodity? I agree being shielded from things limits experiences and therefore education but once people pay for something they feel they have a certain ownership of it so begin to try shape it to their wants, thus missing out on other experiences. I’d still argue that the fees is more of a factor in this than primary education. Discuss


    • teachwell
      December 11, 2015 @ 4:26 pm

      I don’t think its just primary school – I think its the progressive education system as a whole. The one issue that you argument avoids is why now? In the US they have always paid fees, in the UK they have done so for almost 20 years now. What difference does paying £9000 make compared to £3000 or £1000? Also the mentality of safe spaces is one that places huge emphasis on feelings rather than intellect. The notion of never feeling uncomfortable has its genesis in progressive parenting and teaching. Of course my take on this is only one take!!


  4. brian
    December 11, 2015 @ 11:18 pm

    Of course education is a service and students have every right to demand the education they wish to pay for.as you suggest,their lack of enthusiasm for academic achievement is an issue in your mind.you should not dictate what others should take for their fees.you don’t have the right.you seem obsessed with “progressive” especially when defined by yourself.


    • teachwell
      December 11, 2015 @ 11:41 pm

      If education is a service then the students are welcome to go to a university that sells the product they wish for.

      What they are demanding is not ‘they paid for’ because that was clear when they applied to the university, they are bullying senior members of universities to redefine the education offered to all students (the majority of whom do not belong to these organisations). If this was based on the wishes of the majority of students in the universities involved then that would be a different matter. Instead it is a small number of students with very extreme views.

      I ensured that I referred to those students in particular and not ‘all’ students. Many moderate students are simply ignored in this debate even when they attempt to contribute to it.

      More to the point why now? Students in the US have paid fees all along, while students in this country have paid fees for 20 years. What difference does it make now? Could you please explain why paying £9000 provokes this reaction when paying £3000 didn’t? Also the end result of the endeavours of many of these students is segregation, changes to courses for politically correct reasons, and to end up less educated than those who have taken the course before them. Going to university involves having some level of maturity and the ability to cope with differing views. It is not the role of universities to create echo chambers for students to sit in. Personally I think the picture says it all.

      As for ‘obsession with progressives’ comment – I happen to disagree with the main tenets of the progressive education movement, including the idea that a traditional education is elite and irrelevant to working class children. This is the decision of middle class progressives not working class parents / teachers with a working class background or indeed wider society. So yes I have an issue with any group that thinks systematically discriminating against me due to my background is appropriate. In addition, I happen to be more supportive of the social reform movement which led to universal education. The idea of grammar schools (and an academic education for all) is one that still needs to be realised. As for defining progressive myself – we will have to agree to disagree on that one.


  5. Kabbie Brockway
    December 20, 2015 @ 11:14 pm

    What we have is called the Tyranny of the Minorities that Ray Bradbury talked and wrote about. Tyranny, either from the majority or the many minorities, in ALL forms, should be resisted. By allowing intellectual tyranny, we are obliterating reasoned thought and intellectual exchange which used to be defining traits of quality education.


    • teachwell
      December 20, 2015 @ 11:17 pm

      Indeed and these are simply individual or small groups of minority opinion who are self-appointed and claiming legitimacy on the basis that they speak for others. I say call their bluff and insist on all students giving their views!! Would highlight what little support the shouty ones really have.



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